Rabbi Eli Cohen – A Jewish Perspective of Messiah
What is a counter-missionary and how does it differ from an anti-missionary? Why do Jews acknowledge some potential messiahs but not Yeshua? What exactly is a messiah and where does the concept come from? What is long-term prophecy, what is its purpose and how does it relate back to messiah? Will there be multiple messiahs? How does the Jewish and Christian messiah differ? What are the qualifications of the Jewish messiah and will it be David?
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Shalom Jono:
I quess this is more of a statement with some questions
If Yehovah passed through the pieces without Abraham and will pay the penalty for Israel breaking the covenant, what penalty would it be? And if the 10 tribes were divorced, how can God take back the bride but by paying the penalty which is death and then resurrect,(of course He has no form so He sends His Name Sake)He now would be a new man who could then take back His first love which was lost. This is what Yeshua taught when He said I did not come, but for the Lost Sheep of Israel. He came to redeem the house of Israel back to the Father. Yeshua was referred to by John that He was the Word made flesh and dwelt among men. He also was referred to as the Way and also said, I am the door and no man can see the Father but through me. Wouldn’t that make Him the Word (Torah) who is the door and the Way to the Father? So then He would really be telling us that the Word is the Way to know the Father. He came in the Name of the Father (name sake)? He never came to do His own will but the Fathers will. Romans 10:13 everyone who calls on the name of Yehovah and Yoel 2:32
PS I Loved the study, and pray the Father will continue to teach all truth…thanks Eli and Jono.
Terrific interview with a lot to consider! Thank you, Jono!
I have recently been asking myself ” who exactly is this messiah I have been tot about since I was a child?”. It is interesting that this talk show is on at a time I am seeking Yah’s truth and questioning my own walk. You have given me much to think about and to investigate. Thank You, Jono, for the programs. You have brought so much into my life and have taught me to that in order to find truth one must do his own research and rely only on God to show him/her the path that leads to Him. I am in deep prayer about this subject and also pray for all those who are going through the same. My husband and I are at this time considering converting to the Karaite Jewish sect. But only when we are truly certain that that is where God wants us to be. Please be in prayer with us.
sincerely,
Crystal
I appreciate Eli’s insights and perspectives.
From 1971 until 2011 I believed in Christianity and the teachings of the Bible; however, since I studied in-depth, the TNK from Dec 2010 until we concluded Maliki just yesterday, I cannot claim to be a “Christian.” I simply don’t believe “Christianity” has or tells the truth as I understand it any longer.
Nevertheless, I am not convinced the Yeshua of Nazareth is not the Arm of God prophesied to restore Israel as God’s seat of Rule of earth. I believe He was anointed and commissioned by God to teach us the way to honor Torah perfectly. I hope that He will return and complete the restoration; however, I no longer believe the report as told by “Christianity.”
Thank you Jono
I appreciate Eli’s insights and perspectives.
From 1971 until 2011 I believed in Christianity and the teachings of the Bible; however, since I studied in-depth, the TNK from Dec 2010 until we concluded Malachi just yesterday, I cannot claim to be a “Christian.” I simply don’t believe “Christianity” has or tells the truth as I understand it any longer.
Nevertheless, I am not convinced the Yeshua of Nazareth is not the Arm of God prophesied to restore Israel as God’s seat of Rule of earth. I believe He was anointed and commissioned by God to teach us the way to honor Torah perfectly. I hope that He will return and complete the restoration; however, I no longer believe the report as told by “Christianity.”
Thank you Jono
Thank you so much for having Rabbi Cohen on this episode…this was SO beneficial for us and such a breath of fresh air! Pleasssse have him back again!
I really enjoyed the program with Rabbi Cohen. Thanks to both of you for your time and for such a good teaching. It gives me a lot to think about it. I look forward to hearing the Rabbi again.
Very insightful ! Thanks Jono and Rabbi Cohen! Lots to dig into and I will be “re-listening” with pen /paper/ Tenach on hand!
Thank you both! Loved it! It was great to hear a lot of info I had gathered presented in a much more cohesive way than my random notes! You also clarified a few notes I had marked as questions, which I will be going back over, as well as a few new points I had never heard! All in all, so wonderful and very much appreciated! I’m looking forward to the next topic we get to research together. 🙂
Shalom to you both and your collective families!
LDK
Thanks Jono and Rabbi Cohen! Very thought provoking program. I really enjoyed it. I hope Rabbi Cohen will join you again soon.
I would like to write my view about “the redemption of Israel and the coming of Moshiah”. I fear that we have gone wrong in expecting that God will send an individual as Moshiah.
Christianity is the result of our wrong expectation that Moshiah is an individual. You may tell that we do not believe in Christianity. But what I mean is, We must remember, we must admit that it is not Gentiles who made Jesus the Moshiah or Christ, it was some of the Jews who did it. How could they do that? Its answer is that our wrong expectation or wrong interpretation of Bible words culminated or resulted in giving birth to Christianity. According to my view Moshiah is Israel, he is not an individual like Jesus or any other person.
Following will explain you, how I came to this view. Please read it carefully, examine it meticulously, and please say where I have gone wrong, if you think I am wrong.
What is the basis of the belief in a Messiah?
Judaism has always maintained a fundamental belief in a Messianic figure. Since the concept of a Messiah is one that was given by God to the Jews, Jewish tradition is best qualified to describe and recognize the expected Messiah. This tradition has its foundation in numerous biblical references, many of which are cited below. Judaism understands the Messiah to be a human being (with no connotation of deity or divinity) who will bring about certain changes in the world and who must fulfill certain specific criteria before being acknowledged as the Messiah.
These specific criteria are as follows :
1)He must be Jewish. (Deuteronomy 17:15, Numbers 24:17) 2) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10) and a direct male descendent of both King David (I Chronicles 17:11, Psalm 89:29-38, Jeremiah 33:17, II Samuel 7:12-16) and King Solomon. (I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18)3) He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel. (Isaiah 27:12-13, Isaiah 11:12)4) He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. (Micah 4:1)5) He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3)6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one G-d. (Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 40:5, Zephaniah 3:9)All of these criteria for the Messiah are best stated in the book of Ezekiel chapter 37:24-28: “And My servant David will be a king over them, and they will all have one shepherd, and they will walk in My ordinances, and keep My statutes, and observe them, and they shall live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant…and I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their G-d and they will be My people. And the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.” If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, he cannot be the Messiah.
(1) He must be Jewish.
(Deuteronomy 17:15, Numbers 24:17) What does Deut 17:15 says? It says about whom should be ruler of Jews. It doesn’t say any thing about a Messiah. Listen Moses said “ When you come to the land which the lord your God is giving you, and posses it and dwell in it,’ you shall surely set a king over you whom the lord your god chooses; one from among your brethren you shall set as king over you, you may not set a foreigner over you, who is not your bother.” What does it mean? Here the king means ruler. At the time of Moses the ruler was named ‘king’. If Moses were living now, he would have said you should set over you a President or Prime minister. Whatever be designation of the ruler, he must be a Jew, a foreigner should not be appointed as ruler of Jews. Another important thing to be noted is that any Jew can be the ruler, Ruler ship or Kingship is not reserved to the Tribe ‘Judah”. Scripture very clearly says “ Out of Jacob one shall have dominion” “A star shall come out of Jacob, a Scepter shall rise out of Israel”. ”(Number 24:19, 17) It doesn’t say that out of Judah one shall have dominion, It doesn’t say a Star shall come out of Judah, “.
About the kingship of Judah, Yahweh says,” Remove the turban, and take off the crown; nothing shall remain the same. Exalt the lowly, and abase the exalted. Overthrown, overthrown, I will make it overthrown! It shall be no longer, until he comes whose right it is, and I will give it to him.” (Ezek.21:26) For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice, or sacred pillar, without ephod or taraphim.(Hosea.3:4) I will be your king; where is any other, that he may save you in all your cities? And your judges, to whom you said, give me a king and princes? I gave you a king in my anger, and I took him away in my wrath. (Hose.13:10,11) You may ask, then who will rule Israel? Yahweh says to Jews “I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion. And I will give you shepherds according to my heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.” ( Jere.3:14-15)
You may tell that Jacob has foretold,” The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh comes”. You may tell this means ruler of Jews will be always from the tribe Judah. If you carefully examine the sentence you will see that its meaning is the just opposite. What does it mean, when the Shiloh will come, the ruler-ship will depart from Judah. Prophet Daniel clearly says ,” The saints of the most high shall receive the kingdom, and posses the kingdom forever, even forever and ever”. (Dan;7:18) It is not an individual but the whole saints will receive the kingdom and posses it. Here saints mean the Jews, the chosen people of Yahweh. That is why Yahweh says to Jews ,” You shall be a special treasure to me above all people, for all the earth is mine .And you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation” (Exo.19:5-6) Moses also says,”You are holy people to Yahweh, the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. (Deut.7:6)
Isaiah says about the Jews,” They shall rebuild the old ruins, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the ruined cities, the desolations of many generations. You shall be named the priests of the lord, men shall call you the servants of our God.”. ( Isa.61.4,6) Now the Jews are called holy because God has refined them in the furnace of affliction. Hear the words of Yahweh ,” I have refined you, not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction”. That is why Israel is called the suffering servant of God. Is it not what happened to the Jews during the last 2000 years. We can very well say that Yahweh has taken us and brought us out of the iron furnace, out of the hands of Gentiles, to be his people, his inheritance as we are this day.(See Exo.4:20) Now every Jew is equally eligible to be the ruler of Israel. The Jews elect one of them without looking his tribe as their ruler. . Remember the important criteria to be the Messiah is that He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel. (Isaiah 27:12-13, Isaiah 11:12) Everybody knows that no Messiah came to fulfill this Herculean task . But The resurrected Israel is doing this work superbly and proves he is the messiah. Then what is the use of another messiah coming now?
You may ask, what is the meaning of the words like this (1) “Once I have sworn by My holiness; I will not lie to David: his seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me; It shall be established forever like the moon, even like the faithful witness in the sky.(Ps. 89:34-37). Jews interpret this in this way that God will put seed of David on his thrown for ever. To support this view they say Ezekiel chapter 37:24-28 clearly says this thing. What does Ezekiel 37:24-28 say? Yahweh says “David my servant shall be king over them, and they shall have one shepherd; they shall walk in My judgments and observe my statutes, and do them. Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob my servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they , their children, and their children’s children, forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever.”
PS.89 says the seed of David will reign on the throne of David forever, but Ezekiel 37:24 says David himself shall be king over them. It seems to be contradictory. How David can be the king of Jews forever? Will David resurrect? Careful examination of PS 89 will tell us, PS.89 doesn’t say the seed of David will reign on the throne forever, but it says David’s throne shall endure for ever as the sun before him. Ezek 37 says, Who ever reign Israel is sitting on the throne of David and who ever rule Israel is a David. That is whyYahweh syas,” They shall serve there God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them” (Jer.30:9) Their Nobles shall be from among them, and their governor shall come from them. (Jer.30:21) It doesn’t say their Nobles shall be from the tribe of Judah, or their Governor shall come from David or tribe Judah. What does Yahweh say?
Yahweh said EZekiel,” Son of Man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions’. Then another stick and write on it, ‘for Joseph, the stick of ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions. Then Join them one to another for yourself into one stick, they will become one in your hand. And when the children of your people speak to you, saying,” will you not show us what you mean by these? Say to them,’ Thus says the Lord your god; Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hands of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in my hand.
Thus says Yahweh: Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land. And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel, and one shall be king (Ruler) over them all, they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.(Eze.37:16-22) . This has complete harmony or agreement with the words of Yahweh “ I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion. And I will give you shepherds according to my heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.” ( Jere.3:14-15) Here Yahweh doesn’t say the ruler of Israel will be from the tribe of Judah or he will be the son of David. This has complete harmony or agreement with the words of Moses “When you come to the land which the lord your God is giving you, and posses it and dwell in it,’ you shall surely set a king (Ruler) over you whom you chooses; one from among your brethren you shall set as ruler (king) over you, you may not set a foreigner over you, who is not your bother.” This is what Scripture says about whom will rule Israel.
But we happened to believe that God has promised David that his descendant will be the Messiah and will rule over Israel because they believe that promise given to David is an unconditional one. But if David says it is a conditional one, can you disbelieve David? Read the following carefully: “Then the days of David drew near that he should die, and he charged Solomon his son saying; “I go the way of all the earth; be strong, therefore, and prove yourself a man. And keep the charge of Yahweh our God: to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, his commandments, his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that you may prosper in all that you do and wherever you turn; that Yahweh may fulfill his word which he spoke concerning me, saying,’ If your sons take heed to their way, to walk before me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul,’ He said you shall not lack a man on the throne of Israel.” ( 1.Kings.2:2-4) Not only David, Salomon also says the promise given to David is conditional one. Can’t you believe? Hear Salomon prays to Yahweh,” Therefore, Yahweh the Lord God of Israel, now keep what you promised your servant David my father, saying,” You shall not fail to have a man sit before me on the throne of Israel,only if your sons take heed to their way, that they walk before me as you have walked before me.” ( 1.Kings.8:25)
David and Salomon understand the promise given to David as a conditional one. In the case of promise given to David, God is bound to keep promise only if the sons of David obey the commandments of Yahweh. We know from the history of Jewish kings, the descendants of David many time disobeyed Yahweh. Thus Yahweh became not liable to keep the promise given to David. So Yahweh removed the kings and the Jews lived without a king for many years.
But remember any one can give whatever interpretation for prophesies according to his mind. But it doesn’t mean all the interpretations might come true or right. We will know the real meaning of the prophecy only after its real fulfillment. This is a universal truth. Believing that the promise given to David is an unconditional promise, we wrongly interpreted the prophesies to give it the meaning that Yahweh will give them Son of David as their king in the messianic age. In fact, Messiahship of Jesus and Christianity is the culmination of the wrong interpretation of prophecies.
Christians and Jews take “Messiah “ as the savior, whereas the real meaning of ‘Messiah” is “Anointed one”. Anointed one means separated one. Israel is the separated one or anointed one of God Yahweh. This is what the Bible says. Then if the messiah is not the savior who is the saviour?
Yahweh the God of Israel says, “ For I am the Lord your God, the holy one of Israel, Your savior”. (Isa.43:3) Before me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after me. I, even, I am the Lord, and BESIDES ME THERE IS NO SAVIOR. (Isa.43:11)And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior: there is none besides me.(Isa.45:21)
God very clearly states he is the savior and there is none. Then why do you Jews interpret the words of God in such a way to teach world that a Jew who will born in the house of David will the messiah or Savior?
In the scriptures nowhere there is any such prayer to send a savior. But in the scripture we will see the prayer for salvation.
And our God says,” Listen to Me, you stubborn-hearted, who are far from righteousness
I bring my righteousness near, it shall not be far off; My salvation shall not linger. I will place salvation in Zion, for Israel My glory”. God clearly says what will come is salvation, He didn’t say a savior will come. Then why do we believe a Messiah or savior will come ?
In order to be forgiven of your sins you had to obey “Moses” commandments that came from Yehovah…correct? The people who rebelled were killed! Yehovah told us there would be a prophet we had to obey and harken to..all the prophets and judges Yehovah sent were telling the people to get back to the Torah. When the lamb was killed and the blood was put on the door posts those who didn’t have the blood on the posts had a first born die. This is a shadow picture of Yeshua and his blood. Yeshua taught us to be obediant to Torah we were just blinded for many many years. If they didn’t ACCEPT Moses, they wouldn’t have been accepted; this is a theme throughout..we have to accept the “vassel” in which Yehovah uses…the last being His son (Yeshua). If Moses would have told you you had to jump up and down and scream YAY..and you didn’t then you would not be being obediant..Yeshua told us we have to believe on him and his death and resurrection..which is our promised hope and I DO! Now that we are becoming “unblinded” how can you not see that Yehovah through Yeshua is uniting the people and bringing the kingdom together…for his second return?? Has any other savior been able to do this? NO! Yeshua never said he was the Father..he constantly said the Father was greater than him and his God is our God..etc. The fact is that we have gone astray and the Father sent His son to us to bring us back to Him..and it is working! I KNOW in my heart and soul that Yeshua is my Messiah(the judge/priest of the world to come/and future king) through the working of Yehovah. And he IS CURRENTLY gathering in the exiles as our eyes are being opened before his much awaited glorious return when all will mourn. And he will reign for the 1000 year millenium and then the kingdom will be handed over back to the Father (1 corin. 15). However, only recently I have begun to understand that the son is not the Father. How much more submissive can you get to Yehovah than obediance to death (as Issac was willing for Abraham)? The Rabbis were well aware of the suffering messiah (ben Joseph) and conquering messiah (ben David)..the first time he came as a lamb..second time will be as the judging lion.
I wanted to address an above comment that there is no other savior. That is correct and not correct lol..here is what I mean. Yehovah is the ONLY savior in that He is the only one who can provide a means/vessel of salvation. For example, He has sent many “saviors”..my favorite example to this is Samson..in which it states in Judges 13:5 For lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to SAVE Israel out of the Philistines. Samson is Yehovah’s “vassel”..Yehovah gives him the power and strength to accomplish the will of Yehovah…so yes, Yehovah is the only one who can save us..but it is through His will and His way.
Another thing I wanted to point out was that in Exodus 7:5 Yehovah says HE will stretch out his hand upon Egypt..however, in 8:16 we see it was Aaron doing it…Aaron is Yehovah’s “vassel”.
Now isn’t true that Rabbi Yehoshua Bar Levi knew that there was a “supposed” contradiction of the coming one? And he said something like IF we are worthy he will come riding on the clouds; but IF we are not worthy he will come riding upon a donkey?? Well I can say it’s both and it’s because it’s in reference to 2 comings. The “extra writings” clearly show Messiah in it..so I just want to say to those who are teetering in their faith..DO NOT GIVE UP YESHUA…pray on it and sinceraly seek Yehovah and ask Him to help you with the truth; there are MANY resources in which you can go to that will give you reference that show the “earlier Jews” believed in many things concerning messiah that they now claim they don’t believe but it’s in their own writings! Such the fact they actually state that Issac’s soul left his body and came back in him showing a type of resurrection. Many mistake Yeshua as replacing the Levitical priesthood (I was guilty of this myself)..however, now I understand through a careful study of Hebrews that He is the high priest of the world to come to the Father (in which Moses was commanded to make the tabernacle by the patterns he saw)..the Levitical priesthood was a shadowpicture..but the sacrifices will carry on throughout the millenial reign. Yeshua was our atonement sacrifice and that’s why its not in Ezekial (Yom Kippur is left out). That’s what the whole book of Hebrews is about.
thank u 4 the hour of your understanding of Messiah.Please can i now give u what i see the holy one of israel-jacob saying.jeremiah 31v33 is a new covenant…not like the old one with moses…its now grace and truth thru Messiah Yeshua…blood was everything from adam,abel,moses,tabernacle,rahab,yomkipur,blood on mercy seat..Yeshua says he wants mercy,not sacrifice…Yeshuas spotles birth made him faultless…perfect lamb of God…in the Quaran surah 3v43-55 and surah 43v61-63 talks of this and Yeshuas 2nd coming at the resurection of the righteous…isaiah 9v6…micah 5v2…genesis 3v15…malachi 4…isaiah 9v2…must go now…hope to talk again soon…love glenn
WOW, BRAVO! WOW. Thank you Jono for this teaching and for having Rabbi Eli. I came out of organized manmade religion about 1 year ago and actually started to question the roots of Christianity in the past 3 years. I have been learning Hebrew and I have The Word pc software where I have access to the Aleppo Codex, Leningrad Codex and the Modern Hebrew bibles with the Strong’s concordance interlineally and has helped me understand Torah a whole lot better than I have ever did through the teachings of theologians and doctrine Gurus. My point is that I have been struggling with this issue of Messiah; whether he came already and due to be back or has never come. Weather he is to be divine or not and all of these questions that a lot of people here are wondering about, so I did what Jono did and research the Tanach, I have read it from beginning to end about 3 to 4 times in the past 3 years and I noticed many issues that do not line up with the so call New Testament. I would like to share some of the issues I see:
1) 4,000 years of Historical/archeological Biblical Facts of “Thus says YEHOVAH” vs. 40 years (give or take) of MAN TEACHING rather than “Thus says YEHOVAH”
2) Multiple Prophets with the WORD of YEHOVAH, vs. 70% Paul’s Teaching (granted some is in reference of Torah) 30% of few disciples
3) The doctrine of Baptisms of the word Baptism does not appear in the Tanach, but is all over the 1st century writings (the laws of cleansing in Lev. got nothing to do with immersion and washing of sin
4) Passover “MEAL” was a sacrificial meal to redeem Israel from the bondage of Egypt, and nothing to do WHATSOEVER with atoning for sin; therefore, why would “Jesus” atone for our sins??? In Torah, we can bring a sin offering as an atonement for our sins, and collectively as a Nation (Israel or those who united with them (one Torah for the native Israelite and one for the stranger among them) in Yom Kippur! so how can Paul say in Heb. 10 that He was our Passover Lamb??? it does not add up, not to mention that Yehovah commanded us to RAMSON our first born males with an ANIMAL, my point is, HE never ask nor commanded us to sacrifices HUMANS, why would HE do contrary to what HE taught us and sacrifices HIS only begotten SON???? (HE never liked people sacrificing their sons and daughters to Molech or Ashteroth, or Ba’al, Why would HE sacrifice “JESUS”???
5) Jesus/Yehoshua said “Drink this wine as a symbol of HIS blood and a sign of a new Covennant??? What Yehovah’s original covenant was not good enough??? Plus isn’t it weird to think that we are prohibited to eat blood (of the sacrifices to Yehovah) and are commanded to pour it on the ground like water???? Then to eat bread as a symbol of HIS body???? Cannibalism??? What is wrong with these pictures????
6) Exodus 20:1-6 and Duet 6:4 But in the New Testament, Christianity worships Jesus & Yehovah as ONE or some as 3, nowhere in the Tanach says HE is 2 or 3, it doesn’t say that you must accept Jesus in order to be save, deliver or forgiving, HE says repeatedly throughout the Tanach that in order to be deliver, forgiving and saved you MUST obey TORAH, teshuba/return to HIS ways and CALL UPON YEHOVAH, NOT JESUS!!!
These are a few of many issues that do not line up with the 1st century writing and the true and only WORD OF YEHOVAH, TANACH (Torah, Prophets and Writings) now I did not mean to offend anyone nor create animosity amongst my brethren (Christians, Messianic, Orthodox, Karaite Jews) I just wanted to put my thoughts out there so some would not feel awkward or lonely when realizing the issue of the Messiah, since I feel like I cannot speak about these things around some of my own family/friends/co-workers as I was brought up Christian till not too long ago! 🙂 I hope that all of our eyes may be open so we may see the wondrous things of HIS TORAH! Amen.
I am sorry, I forgot to finalized my point about Eli’s teaching, that I am not a scholar nor pretend to know but as much as a mustard seed in regards of YEHOVAH’s word, but if I, a very humble semi-smart man can come to the same conclusion as my brothers the Jews, without any prior knowledge of their believes, that proves to me that 1) I was in the right track, 2) They are not making thigns up (other than the Talmud 🙂 )in regards of TANACH and 3) that there is no agenda/theology/doctrine in the TANACH let alone a so call “dual/hidden/deeper message in the scriptures as we are commanded to read out the TORAH every 7 year to women, men and CHILDREN! without a manual that would let you decodify any mistical/mistirious message to the WORD OF Elohim, Then you (the listener) can do the same thing if you really want to know the truth, ask HIM to uncover your eyes that you may see, pray, FAST and read the scriptures w/o any preconception notiong of Messiah, YEHOVAH’s kingdome and w/o an agenda/theology/doctrine, and do not listen to man’s opinion (the “I belive, I think and I feel this is that, and that is this mentality) YEHOVAH BLESS YOU.
Jono, it seems like this has turned into a Blog thread for some. LOL!
I guess the Rabbi was quite thought provoking for some people.
I do want to address the first post here, relative to the covenant made with Avram. If one were to re-read the scriptures that set this covenant in motion they quickly learn that there is no way to break this covenant. There seems to be a misconception about this in Messianic Judaism, Hebrew Roots, and Christianity. The scritpures clearly state that the covenant is related to the Land. Nothing else.
17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and there was thick darkness, behold a smoking furnace, and a flaming torch that passed between these pieces.
In that day the YHVH made a covenant with Avram, saying: ‘Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates;
This is an unconditional covenant, and the seal of the covenant was circumcision that we see later in Gen 17.
Since the covenant was solely set in motion by YHVH, Avram’s participation in the pieces was unnecessary. It is simply a covenant that cannot be broken, because there is not part of the covenant that is conditional.
I hope this clears this up for some folks.
Ira
In the midrashic version of the Akeidah, Isaac died on the altar. (This is Judaic teaching)…R. Juddah says: When the sword touched Isaac’s throat his soul flew clean out of him. And when He let His voice be heard from between the cherubim, :Lay not thy hand upon the lad,” the lad’s soul was returned to his body. Then his father unbound him and Isaac rose, knowing that in theis way the dead would come back to life in the future; whereupon he began to recite, “Blessed ar You, Yehovah, who resurrects the dead.” Pirkei de R. Eliezer,31.
Akeidah (binding) of Isaac comes from root word-akod translated as bound in Gen. 22:9 meaning ringed or striped. Rashi explains that the use of this verb refers to the stripe-like marks left by ropes on the ankles and wrists who is bound/tied hand and foot..
Talmud also states it was as IF Isaac was actually burned..and they knew where to build the second temple because they had a vision of the ashes of Isaac. And on Rosh HaShanan the synagogue trumpeter prays, “May you be filled with mercy for your people and may you regard the ASHES of Isaac, our forefather, that are heaped upon the altar.”
It’s really a beautful picture and I pray for everyone sincerely for the information is in scripture that points to Yeshua but the ones who are denying him have in their own literature in which they go by even MORE persuading commentary that Yeshua is the messiah.
Kelvin,
Thank you so much for saying what you said. My husband and I have just recently come up with the same conclusions. I think you are “spot on” in regards to the New Testament and the messiah that is portrayed. For me this is a conformation of our own discovery, because at first I thought I was going insane. Afraid to let go of what I was taught, thinking I would go to hell for not believing in Jesus. But I have found that meaning things did not line up with Yahoveh’s testimony.
thank you, thank you.
Crystal
“The shofar blown at Mount Sinai, when the Torah was given, came from the ram which had been sacrificed in place of Isaac. The left horn was blown for a shofar at Mount Sinai and its right horn will be blown to hearald the coming of Moshiach. The right horn was larger than the left, and thus concerning the days of Moshiach it is written, “on that day, a great shofar will be blown.” Tz’eneh Ur’enah, quoting Isaiah 27:13
Rabbi Bechaye asks, “Was not the ram burnt as a burnt offering, together with its horns, skin and flesh? How could this be the source of the shofar that was blown on Mount Sinai?” Then he answers: “The answer is that God created a new ram out of the ashes.” ….the answer is simple…the ram was resurrected 🙂 My love, my Messiah Yeshua. I just wanted to give a few verses from their own writtings..I’ll stop now but please post it Jono..as I see many falling away from the faith in which Yeshua warned us about a coming great falling away.
Noun
apophenia (plural apophenias)
(psychology) The perception of or belief in connectedness among unrelated phenomena.
Jono, I’m not certain if you are referring to what I said as the “apophenia” but I just want to say I am not the one who made these connections. Jewish brothers wrote the New Testament..and it is in Hebrews 11:17-19 that was in reference to the Isaac parable ..By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac, and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a PARABLE.. (most dont translate it parable because no one knew what this meant)..it is greek 3850 for the word parable! And it’s in reference to the above parable in which I spoke in which no Gentiles knew anything about. We were not the ones making the connections obviously..I mean look we have been doing pagan things and are in process of learning. Forgive me if you weren’t speaking to me as I wanted to just clarify it wasn’t me ref. the “unrelated phenomena”…but my Jewish brothers who were believers to their death. amen!
I think some peoples pre conceptions got ruffled there boys… Better do it again! We appreciated both of your perspectives on THE hotbutton issue for people who love The CREATOR and want to obey and partner with him… I must admit u both gave me a lot to “walk out”. Prayin 4 u guys and everyone listening and responding and READINGSCRIPTURE!!!
Ira, you don’t get the land unless you are obediant to Yehovah by which means He chooses to communicate to us..that’s why we keep getting exiled..it’s all together related! The blessings of the land and promises IF we obey curses of exile etc. if NOT. Hand in hand… as well as not to mention the fact that THE promise seed began with Abraham, then Isaac, Jacob all the way down to Yeshua.
Same reason Ismael (who is “Abraham’s seed”) but the promise of land etc. isn’t to him because this wasn’t “the promised seed”..Yeshua is the ultimate fulfillment. However, if they choose to they may partake in the covenant as well.(just wanted to make that clear to any who thought I meant otherwise..just making a point that the “promised seed” does matter even in the case of the land!)
Rabbi Cohen implied forgiveness of sin is a matter of turning from one’s evil ways and being obedient to YHVH. What is his understanding of the expiatory sacrifices in chapters 5 and 6 of Leviticus?
Wow. This has certainly sparked quite a response! Personally, I appreciate the insight about worshiping a human being. I believe the “church” has erred in developing this practice – but it’s not surprising, seeing how the Romans, Greeks and other nations were accustomed to giving worship to humans as gods. And if I recall correctly, Yeshua never asked anyone to worship him; he always pointed his followers to worship the Father.
Having said that, I am compelled by this weeks parashah, where apparently (as my English bible translates) YHVH appears to Abraham as a man, along with two messengers, who then go on to Sodom, while Abraham remains in the presence of YHVH. And I am compelled by the statement “Is anything too hard for YHVH?”
I understand that there were four miracles that only THE messiah could perform: Restoring the sight of a man born blind, healing a leper, casting out a mute demon and raising the dead after 3 (or 4?) days. These were signs that Yeshua fulfilled, why have they been rejected?
I suspect it’s because they fall into the same camp as those in Luke 16:31
P.S. The focus of my last comment was on the last statement of Luke 16:31 “…neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.”
This was in reference not only to the miracle of raising Lazarus to life after 4 days, but more importantly, Yeshua being the firstfruits from the dead after 3 days.
I am now pondering the idea of forgiveness of sin and repentance. Did Adam and Chavah repent? If so, why did they not return to the garden and eat from the Tree of Life and live forever?
Is the “wages of sin” death?
Does the Tanakh distinguish between how sin is dealt with for the olam hazeh versus the olam haba?
I listened to most of this episode on my way home from work today and really enjoyed it (I plan to listen to the rest this weekend)…I wanted to say that I think this is a great idea to have someone on to discuss why Judiasm does not believe Yeshua is the Messiah…I personally am 100 percent convinced that Yeshua is the Messiah and am convinced that the Torah is extremely important and that I need to follow it… but I am still trying to understand the concept of the Messiah and sometimes think I may have developed the wrong concept of exactly the nature of The Messiah or the role of the Messiah…I love the way topics are discussed on your shows by people who have differing beliefs on the topic of Yeshua (some believe He is the Messiah and some do not) and yet there is no condemnation between the different guests and I love that…it is very refreshing because there are so many “haters” out there that it is so nice to see people actually get along and see how people are striving to please Yehovah and study the Torah together, even from different backgrounds…also, i do believe that I can learn something from people who have different views than me and I think it is important to not feel threatened to listen to someone talking about why they don’t believe something that you do…this concept of the Messiah has lately been consuming me…trying to understand how I am supposed to view the Messiah…one question that I would love to hear from an expert in judaism would be why the many righteous people of the Bible bowed down to important leaders…like David and Abraham… that always confused me… I thought we were not supposed to bow down to anyone but God but I realize I must be misunderstanding the verses…but I feel somehow the answer somehow is connected to the concept of the Messiah and that there must be some kind of difference between what David and Abraham did and the sin of bowing down before other gods…anyways, thanks for having this guest on because I really enjoyed it 🙂
Thank you, Jono and Rabbi Eli for this eye opening talk. The more I learn of Tanakh, the more I realize that christianity is the antithesis of Judaism. Jesus and his followers combined Judaism with paganism. This should be rejected by all unless paganism is your thing then knock yourself out.
BTW, JC, How could Jesus perform the miracle of casting out “demons” when such things do not exist?
Crystal and Husband (Respectfully)
I am glad that you guys responded, I felt the same way when I read your comment so I couldn’t help myself and reply. I pray that Yehovah continue to open your eyes (our eyes too:) ) and be able to learn more.
I love all of you and love to be able to speak out without being condemmed for what I believe. I am sorry Jono for turning this into a blog as Ira said 🙁 but I don’t have a facebook to interact with other believers in Yehovah’s Word so thank you for this small venue to find common ground. Ira, don’t hate! LOL Love you Ira, just picking.
catherine, the book of hebrews explains why Yeshua had to die. It basically says Yeshua is NOT the high priest on earth as Levitical priesthood (as he is from the tribe of Judah) therefore, while we are still here Levitical priesthood still stands. However, Yeshua is the “testor” (Hebres 9:16) of the “new covenant” that was promised to us (Jer. 31:31-34) where no one will teach us and we will all know Yehovah and the laws will be written upon our hearts. The levitical priesthood as well as the tabernacle and temple was a “likeness” of what Moses saw in the “heavenly realm”. Just as Moses killed animals and sprinkled the people coming into the covenant with the people (in which they broke) Yeshua is the one who died for the “new covenant”. In other words, we have been offered partaking of entering into the new covenant (which is not of this world but the world to come)..if we accept then we accept Yeshua as our high priest to the Father in the world to come!! This is why we are sprinkled with the blood of Yeshua (just as Moses sprinkled the people with the blood of the calves)..it was all a shadow picture of the future promise. Now does this do away with the old covenant? Not while we are on this earth (this is why sacrifices were still being done by believers in Acts). Yeshua entered into the REAL Holy of Holies in the heavenly realm which was not made by hands in which Moses copied the pattern! Therefore, if we wish to enter into this promise we have to accept the blood of Messiah. It’s not for a penalty of something we broke(why he had to die); it’s because it’s the means of the promised covenant which has been offered to us but has not been completed yet! When it is completed we will have the laws in our hearts (no one will have to teach us) and we will have our ceremonial meal sealing the covenant (with new names and all!!).
I wanted to clarify something in my above comment..I said Yeshua didn’t have to die because of a penalty of something we broke. He did have to die because of the sins (the fallen state of man) because we have to die now (which came about with Adam). By his death we are promised eternal salvation in the world to come (he makes death of no effect because we can be resurrected to eternal life by the promise through Yeshua). I guess the point I was trying to make above when I said it’s not a penalty of something we broke..is basically that I personally don’t think it had anything to do with the fire going between the pieces which made someone have to die…but it is everything to do with what we all broke. But death was already in the world because of the sin of Adam and Eve. Yeshua is the blood of the new promised covenant of the world to come and by his death we are cleansed with the new covenant and sprinkling of blood into the glorious world to come!
For Kimberly Callahan
I am just trying to help you with your last questions; I think these scriptures might help you understand the nature of YEHOVAH:
Exd 34:7 ; Jer 30:11 ; If you think about it, if your son steals $500 and he repents, you forgive him and show him mercy by not beating the tar out of him but nevertheless you punish him in order to learn a lesson and most importantly you make him give back what he stole! Just as TORAH teaches us to do and also Ezekiel 33:15 explains this. 🙂
For Crystal and her Husband!
Hey guys I just listened to this teaching again and I realized something; when Christianity tells us to accept the atoning power of the blood of Jesus (Human sacrifice blood) your sins are forgiving and shall inherit eternal life, well this is a smoke screen to distract you and make you go astray because what is easier for us heathen sinful people; to RETURN to HIS WAYS and quit sinning or simply say “I accept Jesus blood” and be forgiving???? This is 1,000% against the words of Yehovah, where HE says if you repent and return to HIS WAYS TORAH! HE will forgive you and your sins will not be remember no more (Ezk 33; Ezk 18, plus numerous more) and not a so call begotten son of God! In the book of Isaiah (all over it) says that HE is the only GOD and the ONLY SAVIOR, Hosea also says this!
G’day Jono, excellent, informative, and much needed program with Rabbi Cohen! More great teachings and insight from the Jewish understanding please.
John 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
What is interesting though is that if it wasn’t for my knowledge of “Jesus” I would probably be an atheist, Buddhist, or a Taoist.
Today my experience in “Christianity” has resulted in learning from Judaism with the Torah and seeking after the Creator of the universe, the God of Israel.
Thank you again for doing this Jono and thank you Rabbi for being willing to present your views to us. I sincerely hope you will be back.
To that end I have a couple of questions. In Genesis 3:15 YHVH speaks of a descendant of the woman crushing the serpent’s head. I know Christianity has always considered this a prophecy of the messiah. I was wondering what Judaism’s perspective on it is. Is YHVH just speaking in general about men crushing snakes?
Secondly, I’ve heard a lot about Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David. How the ancient rabbis believed in both a suffering servant messiah and a conquering king messiah because they could not see how all the apparent messianic prophecies could be fulfilled in one man. This is then given by Messianics as evidence of Messiah coming twice. Could you give us your perspective on this?
Finally, I want to thank you for pointing out what the Tanakh actually says about salvation being the product of simply turning from your sins back to YHVH. I have recently begun to have serious questions about the traditional way Christianity has presented salvation. I had noticed while reading the gospels that (unless I missed something) nowhere does Yeshua say “you must recognize me as the Messiah and that my blood will be shed as an atoning sacrifice for you in order to be saved.” Every time the gospel was presented it was simply “repent, turn from your sins, for the Kingdom of God is at hand.” It was fascinating to see this actually lined up with what was said in the Tanakh. Thanks again Rabbi for speaking with us.
P.S. Jono could we also get a Jewish believer in Yeshua to answer some of the same questions? I would very much like to hear both perspectives. As Rabbi Cohen pointed out, one should examine all the information before reaching a decision. Please and thank you. 🙂 And may YHVH bless you and your family for your dedication to helping others find the truth.
I just finished listening to this show am really enjoyed it…one more question I thought of where I get very confused about it what is the purposes of the sacrifices? From what I understand, and I admit my understanding is very lacking when it comes to the sacrifices, i am understanding that there are different purposes for the sacrifices…I believe that the new testament believers in Yeshua after Yeshua had gone away were still participating in the sacrifices because of what is told in the book of Acts with paul going to participate in some kind of sacrifice with the other men as a way to show the believers in Yeshua that paul wasn’t against the Torah (personally I believe Paul was against the Torah and that is why I don’t accept Paul) but anyways, what I am trying to say is that I think in the beginning of Yeshua’s believers they didn’t necessarily think His purpose for coming was all about forgiveness of their sins because then why would the believers in Yeshua still be participating in the sacrifices after He went away? Anyways, so what I am trying to ask in a very long, convulted way 🙂 is I am so confused about whether or not the levitical sacrifices had to do with atonement for the people… so when Joel is quoted about how when a person lives a life of sin but changes at the end and does righteousness vice versa the opposite it doesn’t mention about the need for a sacrifice for YHVH to forgive them… that is where I get really confused…about the actual purpose of the sacrifices and would love to hear from a Jewish perspective about the purpose of the Levitical sacrifices…also, from my understanding the Ezekiel temple which is a future prophecy about a temple that hasn’t existed yet do the dimensions or structure being designed different than the first two is that there will be sacrifices in that temple…so could the sacrifices represent more than forgiveness?
Thank you for having Rabbi Eli on the show. Everything he said is so true.
A terrific and enlightening interview! I thoroughly enjoyed listening to it on this quiet Shabbat day! I will be replaying it for myself again, just to make sure that I absorbed all of the information.
Thanks ‘once again’ Jono, and thank you Rabbi Cohen for your time! =-D
Great program. My husband and I have been asking YHVH to give us understanding and insight to this question of “the Messiah and Yeshua” for several months. Rabbi Cohen provided us with some good scripture references and we will be studying the Tanach ourselves to find truth. Please have the Rabbi back on. There are so many issues between judaism and Christianity that need to be addressed. May YHVH open our eyes to the wondrous hidden things in His Word.
Todah Jono & Rabbi Cohen for this insightful discussion. It is most thought provoking.
I have pondered why a hungry Yeshua would curse an innocent tree for keeping Torah & not bearing fruit out of its appointed season (Genesis 1:12 & Mark 11:13). If it were anyone else but Yeshua, some would say he was indirectly cursing the Creator. Had he been master over his frustration, he might have spoken life into the Fig Tree, that it would bear fruit the next day; which would be more fitting for the text that followed.
Jono,
So much thanks for the window you are providing, to different perspectives on Torah and Yehovah – which helps each of us to sort out tradition & theology from Yehovah’s divine instructions.
Jono, thank you for a wonderful and thought provoking study. I do have a couple questions. How does the Rabbi interpret Ex 23:20-22? And does Judaism understand this passage to pertain to the Messiah? How can God give a distinct command in this passage to, 1) be on your gaurd before him 2) obey his voice 3) do not rebel towards him and the outcome of being disobedient to all of these things is that, in the ladder part of verse 21, he will not pardon your transgressions since My Name is in him. Thank you, and may the light of our Father continue to shine upon you.
Karen Harvey… if you see this comment and don’t mind, I’d love to ask your thoughts on some things. I’m interested to hear how you understand the issues that need to be addressed between Judaism and Christianity, as this is something I grappled with a lot for the first half of this year, and I came to the conclusion that I had to accept the challenge from Judaism. But also, especially, how you and your husband have been able to take this journey of questions together.
Even though I’m not in a relationship, based on some experiences and things that I’ve seen, I’ve been thinking a lot lately about what questions of faith and commitment to God mean within a marriage relationship and commitment. How can you have individual integrity before God and a close journey and commitment with each other in a thing like this? It’s hard enough just with friends, family, and community, without that very close relationship of marriage as well. Your insight would be so meaningful. If it’s too personal though, don’t feel you need to reply.
My email is anneliseholwerda@gmail.com… you’re welcome to contact me if you’d like to. Blessings,
Annelise
Man, it takes more time to read through all these comments than to listen ;-). Anyway, Thank you for the program. I was always wondering and therefor would like to ask: Where does the concept derive from, that all Israel is jewish (i.e. the tribe of Judah)? Thank’s again. Stay sharp and set apart, YAH’blessings from Berlin!
Thank you, Jono for having Rabbi Cohen on. Please have him on again to address our questions…Those of us who are hungering for Truth not religion….We are currently searching the idea of Messiah out ourselves. My question for Rabbi is; What does he think that Isaiah is referring to In chapter 53 of Isaiah, commonly known as the suffering servant. Does he believe this chapter is referring to Isreal as Yahova’s servant? Especially vs. 4 “surely our griefs he bore, and our sorrows he carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. thank you for all you do to bring truth to the airwaves. shalom.
Can some anwer me this question? In whom is Isaiah 53 speaking of?
Jono,
Thank you for having Rabbi Cohen on to speak to your radio audience. My wife and I were blessed by his direct answers and thorough knowledge of the Tanakh. Your mission to bring truth to all of us is a blessing. We hope that you will invite him back on a regular basis to address questions that Christians have, not just about the concept of Messiah, but about the many differences between Christianity and Judaism. This is a valuable contribution for those who are truly asking Yehovah to show them truth – whatever the cost. Blessings to you and Channi!