Jono & Jason – Romans 10
…for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” – Romans 10:12-13
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[audio:https://truth2u.org/wp-content/uploads/Audio/Truth2U%20-%20Spiritualbabies%20-%20Romans%2010.mp3|titles=]
Deuteronomy 30:
14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart,
* so that you can do it.*
Romans 10:
6 But the righteousness based on faith says “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”
* (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.*
There is a difference between Deut. 30 and Rom 10 as to the continuation after “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”
The difference is determined by the CONTEXT, which is completely different in the two cases. To whom is the (same) message addressed? In Deuteronomy 30 God is speaking to HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE, those he has chosed above all other people, for whom He has displayed wonders as for no one else on earth.
He split the red sea open, he destroyed the army of Pharao before their eyes, he killed all the firstborn in Egypt, but the angel of death passed over their houses, he brought thick darkness in Egypt, but in Goshen, where they lived, was with light, he brought 8 other plagues to Egypt, but the Israelites were spared.
But Romans 10 is addressed to… Romans! Gentiles! people for whom God has never split the sea. We were never ordained to kill a passover lamb and place its blood on our doorposts, God did not come down to speak to us personally from withing fire, He did not stretch out his arm in power to do wonders in our behalf, God never asked any gentile, who is in no way not related to Abraham, to circumcise (except if the gentile sojourns in Israel and wants to eat the passover lamb).
That is why the two sentences are different. To the chosen people YHVH gave one Word, and whoever believes that Word finds life, and to the gentiles YHVH gave one Word, and whoever believes that Word finds life.
Both Jews and gentiles are under the same covenant of faith: we need to believe YHVH, the Word that YHVH addresses to us! Of course whoever believes the Word of YHVH also does the deed represented by that Word. It is impossible to believe God and do the opposite.
However, doing the deed does not produce faith.
For example: King Achab was circumcised like Abraham and also let his children pass through the fire for Molech. Achab equalled Abraham, who bound Isaac on the altar of sacrifice, but more than that, Achab actually let his children die.
From the point of view of ‘deeds’ Achab did the deeds of Abraham, but he got cursed by God and never attained the promises. It is written that there never was a man in ISrael who sold himself to do evil as Achab. Abraham instead was blessed and obtained both the covenant and the promises. He was declared righteous because ….he believed God.
The key word is FAITH, believing the word. Whoever believes the Word will do the commandments (the deeds), but if someone starts to do the deeds -without believing- that person can never attain the righteousness of God.
Paul says it so clearly:
Romans 2:
25 For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. 26 So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
27 Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law.
28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.
Circumcision (or _any_ deed of the law) has only value if it is the product of faith. It is the faith that justifies a man, and the deed follows as a consequence. Any deed, without faith, is dead and cannot justify a man.
This is the same as:
Deuteronomy 10:16
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no longer stubborn.
Jeremiah 4:4
Circumcise yourselves to the Lord; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds.
The Egyptians and their lie: eternal life.
Genesis 1:4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
The promise that death would not strike man, that is, than man would live, has been the first lie ever told (against YHVH’s Truth).
The Truth is, we do die, because YHVH has decreed it.
Mainstream Christianity has incorporated this lie in their system of belief, saying that death is not the end of our existence, as we instinctively know, it is not our end, but only a translation from one form of life (terrestrial, where we suffer, sweat and cry) to another (spiritual, where we do not suffer, do not sweat and do no cry).
It is written that the wages of sin (transgression) is death.
Now think about this, what kind of strange consequence did God attach to the transgression of His Word and Holy Covenant, that when man transgresses, man passes from a life of work, sweat and sorrow to a life of beatitude where there is no sweat and sorrow!
Mainstream Christianity makies people neurotic. When grandpa gets sick we pray and fast and beg God to make him well and heal him, and after 6 months of prayers, when grandpa dies, we say we are happy because he is now in a better place than we are and is celebrating and dancing with the angels.
Well, if that is the case, why didn’t we pray God to make him die as soon as possible when he fell sick in the first place?
Why do not we pray God to let us die quickly so that we go to the better place? I understood one day that this is because God has placed a testimony of the truth in our conscience.
Every healthy living being instinctively knows that he/she does not want to die. We know that that is not what we were created for.
But YHVH did not leave us without hope. This is the hope that YHVH has given us:
Daniel 12 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time.
But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.
YHVH has given us one hope after death: the resurrection. According to all this words, this is the testimony of faith that Paul gave before Felix and the Jews:
Acts 24
14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,
15 having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.
Shalom Jason & Jono,
Thank you for presenting the texts and leaving the conclusions to the “dear listener” (hey, that’s me this time!).
The parallels between Christianity and ancient Egyptian religion might not be as clear as you seem to be suggesting. Jono quoted a book by a person named Jan Assmann (that MUST be a sign: Ass-Mann!). Jan says in the part Jono quoted that she is going to “reconstruct” ancient Egyptian religion based on Christian symbolism. You can’t use Assmann’s reconstruction to prove Christianity was influenced by the Egyptian religion, because that very religion was “reconstructed” based on Christianity. That’s a catch-22 and hence a methodological error. This raises a problem with many of the claims about Christianity being influenced by ancient religions. These ancient religion have often been “reconstructed” based on Christianity and hence the accusation that Christianity was influenced by them is a catch-22. Just check into the criticism of the “The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors” book and you will see what I am talking about. I would love to see you guys do a show about this, distinguishing between the verifiable evidence from ancient sources and speculative “reconstructions”.
Thanks for your feedback Nehemia! Just to clarify, I didn’t say “she” because Jan is a “he“. In fact, he obtained his Ph.D at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and is one of the world’s leading Egyptologists. (He is German, and so I’m guessing his name is correctly pronounced “Yan”?)
I think it is critical to explain to the listeners what it meets to ‘call on the name’. The way you put it it can seem like all you have to do is confess the Name and that saves you, but as I understand it is to call on someone’s name is to follow their ways thus to call on Yehovah’s Name would be to do Torah !
So would it be rain to say, to call on the name of your Rabbi would be to follow his teachings ?
Interesting. It seems that Paul shifts the focus from keeping the commandments over to believing his message about Jesus and his resurrection. So the words of the commandments being in one’s mouth and heart are replaced with faith in Jesus and his ressurection. Boy, that Paul is a wiley one. But i guess some would say that if you put this faith about Jesus in your heart you’ll somehow associate that with keeping the commandments. hmmm or maybe you won’t. Let’s try plugging in Paul’s interpretations in Deu 30 see what happens. “Do not say in your heart, bring Christ down”….hmmm. “Do not say in your heart, bring Christ up from the dead”…..hmmm. Wonder where Paul got this stuff from. Strange. Oh well, good luck with that…lol
Mat_7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
1Jn_3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Gal_2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Joh_5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Calling on the fake name jesus instead of the real name of the savior Yehushua will get you nothing.
Works and faith are shown by the mark of your thoughts (forehead) faith and works (hands) and the day you keep the sabbath and feast days are the ways you show what makes you a lamb. Otherwise your just a goat.
the name jesus came from Iesous which was not used until 1611. The devil wants you to use jesus.
Truth to you ???
A simple English readind will not get you to the truth
The name of the SON of the GOD of Abraham (YHWY) was Yehushua and was NEVER jesus.
Jesus is a fake made up name and has no basis in scripture and is a lie.
[“Call on the name” = follow his ways]
[Obey the commandments there is but one thing left to do, sell all and follow me.]
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
[The mark of a Christian is faith (mark in the forehead) and works (mark in the hand).]
[Do you keep the GOD of Abraham’s Holy Sabbath or Constantines sun god day?]
What part of the 10 commandments and others is done away with?
Adultry
Keeping the Sabbath
Lying
Dishonoring your parents
Murdering (killing a murderer is called justice in scripture)
Which one of these is OK to do?
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
First of all, all critics should be welcomed and based on scripture.
“All your commandments are righteousness” you show in the video, so why not follow them?
Second to Charlie: Paul changed nothing. Not one Jot was changed from the law. It has always been faith and works. Mosha and Davit told us about Yehushua (GOD is salvation). GOD is salvation is the message and the word, the way and the life. Calling HIM Jesus may be tradition but we know what happened to the Sanhedrin over tradition.
Lastly
Nice to hear from Nehemia I was just over at his site to check out the new moon time. Nehemia seems to like questions without being afraid of them. Probably because nothing beats GOD, and nothing else matters.
Shalom
To take Romans 10, verses 1-13 alone is to take them out of context. All of Romans, and, indeed, all of Paul’s books need to be studies together to fully understand what he is saying.
Jono, if you want to know what Rom 10.7+ means, then I suggest you look at Dr. David Stern’s Jewish New Testament Commentary. He is a Messianic Jew who has written a translation of the whole the Bible in such a way as to return the Jewishnish of the Tanakh and the New Testament. For an overview of his Jewish New Testament books, go to: http://www.messianicjewish.net/jntp/
I believe that you have an agenda which is to try ‘prove’ that people can be saved without Yeshua, and by deeds of righteousness, such as following the Tanakh. You deceive yourself and others.
Galatians 3:10 For everyone who depends on legalistic observance of Torah commands lives under a curse, since it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the Scroll of the Torah.” 11 Now it is evident that no one comes to be declared righteous by God through legalism, since “The person who is righteous will attain life by trusting and being faithful.” 12 Furthermore, legalism is not based on trusting and being faithful, but on [a misuse of] the text that says, “Anyone who does these things will attain life through them.” 13 The Messiah redeemed us from the curse pronounced in the Torah by becoming cursed on our behalf; for the Tanakh says, “Everyone who hangs from a stake comes under a curse.” 14 Yeshua the Messiah did this so that in union with him the Gentiles might receive the blessing announced to Avraham, so that through trusting and being faithful, we might receive what was promised, namely, the Spirit. CJB
Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is no longer any condemnation awaiting those who are in union with the Messiah Yeshua. 2 Why? Because the Torah of the Spirit, which produces this life in union with Messiah Yeshua, has set me free from the “Torah” of sin and death. 3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature, 4 so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants. 5 For those who identify with their old nature set their minds on the things of the old nature, but those who identify with the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 Having one’s mind controlled by the old nature is death, but having one’s mind controlled by the Spirit is life and shalom. 7 For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God’s Torah – indeed, it cannot. 8 Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God. 9 But you, you do not identify with your old nature but with the Spirit – provided the Spirit of God is living inside you, for anyone who doesn’t have the Spirit of the Messiah doesn’t belong to him. 10 However, if the Messiah is in you, then, on the one hand, the body is dead because of sin; but, on the other hand, the Spirit is giving life because God considers you righteous. 11 And if the Spirit of the One who raised Yeshua from the dead is living in you, then the One who raised the Messiah Yeshua from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit living in you. 12 So then, brothers, we don’t owe a thing to our old nature that would require us to live according to our old nature. 13 For if you live according to your old nature, you will certainly die; but if, by the Spirit, you keep putting to death the practices of the body, you will live. 14 All who are led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to bring you back again into fear; on the contrary, you received the Spirit, who makes us sons and by whose power we cry out, “Abba!” (that is, “Dear Father!”). 16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our own spirits that we are children of God; 17 and if we are children, then we are also heirs, heirs of God and joint-heirs with the Messiah – provided we are suffering with him in order also to be glorified with him. CJB
G’day Pari, thank you for your comment and for quoting Gal 3:10. I love that verse because it is quoting from Deuteronomy 27:26, “‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’” I love the fact that Paul clarifies this verse by inserting the word “written”! And I love the very next verses that follow in Deuteronomy 28:1-2, “Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of Yehovah your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that Yehovah your God will set you high above all nations of the earth. And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of Yehovah your God!” And I love, love, LOVE the message of SALVATION in the list of blessings found in verse 7, 9-10, “Yehovah will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before your face; they shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways… Yehovah will establish you as a holy people to Himself, just as He has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of Yehovah your God and walk in His ways. Then all peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of Yehovah, and they shall be afraid of you!” Because, as it says in Deuteronomy 30:9-10, “…Yehovah will again rejoice over you for good as He rejoiced over your fathers, if you obey the voice of Yehovah your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law, and if you turn to Yehovah your God with all your heart and with all your soul.” Therefore (19-20), “choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; that you may love Yehovah your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life!” 🙂
Thank you Jono, for your reply. Blessings!