Two House Theology, Converts, & Patrilineal Descent – Who Inherits The Land Of Israel?
It was my recent pleasure to talk with Gene Porter, host of 2730 Years and Counting, a New Testament believing podcast focused on the two houses of Israel. We had an in-depth discussion centring on the question of who inherits land. Can a non-Israelite become the “seed of Israel”? Are there any such examples in the text? To whom was the land specifically given and to whom do the prophets address when speaking of the return of its inhabitants? It’s a controversial topic in most circles but one that’s very plain in the text.
Hello Jono,
I listened to the interview and around 35:50 Gene Porter stated that non Israelites scattered among the 10 tribes of the house of Israel/Ephraim/Joseph will be included in the “greater Exodus” back into the land.
You responded that there is “no precedent in the Torah and no such thing”. While giving several instances from the Torah and Tanach, you quoted Deuteronomy 34:4 pointing to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacobs “seed”.
You asked him how the patrilineal descendant would become affiliated with the tribes, he responded while not giving a scriptural reference, you then claimed the land of Israel is only divided among the tribes, the seed of Israel.
Jono, what about Isaiah 56:1-8 and the LORD telling the STRANGER who has joined himself to Him not to worry, he will not be separated from God’s people. Or the EUNUCH whom He told He would give a everlasting name BETTER THAN of sons and of daughters that shall not be cut off!
What about the SONS OF THE STRANGER, who join themselves to serve the LORD and love His Name and keep the sabbath from polluting it, and have taken hold of His covenant; Even they He will bring to His holy mountain, and make them joyful in His house of prayer FOR ALL PEOPLE.
The Lord GOD which gathers THE OUTCASTS of Israel said Yet I will gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him. These “others” will be gathered at the great resurrection as the land is extended to its original borders.
Jono, these companions of Ezekiel 37:15-17 will be “joined” to Judah and Benjamin, and with Joseph, the 10 tribes of ALL the house of Israel.
The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for THE children of Israel [ Benjamin] HIS COMPANIONS: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, [10 tribes] and for ALL the house of Israel HIS COMPANIONS: 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
Thank you, JJ Walters
Great podcast and also a great example of the importance of being specific about “proof” texts and their contexts! I can identify with that feeling of coming out of Christianity and stepping into what seems like an identity vacuum. Thanks to your show and Spiritual Babies, I have realised that I can have a relationship with God/YHVH simply because He is my Maker. I can pray, give charity, care for creation, and teach my child about the One True God and His people Israel. Keep up the good work! May the everlasting kingdom of Yehovah come soon 😀 😀 😀
JJ, The reference to “eunuch” in Isaiah 56 is not an obscure one. That these eunuchs are likely male Israelite exiles who were castrated in order to serve in Babylonian or Persian courts (See Isaiah 39:5-7) is the generally accepted view. So then the “son of the foreigner” refers to the offspring of male Israelite exile who foreign wife has born him sons, hence “son of the foreigner… who hold fast to my covenant… the outcast of Israel… who are gathered.”
Y’shayahu / Isaiah 56:6 makes it clear that converts are those who ARE joined to Israel. The word Are joined means legally, by a Jewish court of law. “Join themselves” makes no sense whatsoever. The word הַנִּלְוִים is binyan nif’al (passive) and means “those who are joined.” The word is also found in Ester / Esther 9:27.
Y’shayahu / Isaiah 56:6 makes it clear that converts are those who ARE joined to Israel. The word Are joined means legally, by a Jewish court of law. “Join themselves” makes no sense whatsoever. The word הַנִּלְוִים is binyan nif’al (passive) and means “those who are joined.” The word is also found in Ester / Esther 9:27.
Isaiah 56:6 makes it clear that converts are those who are joined to Israel. The word Are joined means legally, by a Jewish court of law. “Join themselves” makes no sense whatsoever. The word הַנִּלְוִים is binyan nif’al (passive) and means “those who are joined.” The word is also found in Ester / Esther 9:27.
The nt says all are Abraham’s seed in the book of galatians 3:29.That is not what God says in Genesis 15:4 and Genesis 17:19-21.
Jono, Wouldn’t that reference to “eunuch”, Strong’s # 5631 and # 7249, in Isaiah 56:4 be pointing to Daniel 1:7 some 112 years later in Babylon and the chief chamberlain or prince who assigned NAMES to him and his 3 friends, who were appointed officers be the MORE accepted view?
Thereby making it very clear that the LORD told the foreigner not to worry, that he would not be separated from God’s people. He told the eunuch He would give a EVERLASTING NAME better than of sons and of daughters that they shall not be cut off!
These sons of the foreigner, who serve the LORD and love His Name and keep the Sabbath and take hold of His covenant; He will bring to His holy mountain, and make them joyful in His house of prayer FOR ALL PEOPLE.
These are the outcast of Israel the Lord God will gather to Him, they are the SAME COMPANIONS of Ezekiel 37:15-17, the children of Judah, and Benjamin, and the same companions of ALL the children of the house of Joseph, the stick of Ephraim’s 10 tribes.
Beside these, there will be yet others gathered unto Him at the great resurrection as the land is extended to its original borders.
Laura, Are you not fulfilling the Lo-ammi prophecy of Hosea 1:9-11, by saying the foreigner, his sons and companions of the house of Judah and house of Ephraim “are not God’s people”?
Wherein God said, an unmeasurable number children of Israel shall come to the PLACE where it was said they are “not His people”.
On the day, when the children of Judah and Israel come up out of the land together and it is said unto them, “you are the sons of the living God”, they will appoint over them one head. You can find verification in Isaiah 11:11-15. JJ
Referring to my response to Laura’s comment regarding that “appointed head”
That appointed head out of Hosea 1:9-11 who is to become over those who WERE NOT God’s people WHO BECAME His sons, is that same one whom people he has not known will serve, because the LORD “has made ME head of the gentiles/nations”, Psalm 18:43-50.
He is that exalted, lifted up “servant” who will cleanse many nations, gathered out of the countries and brought back again into their own land, who will be given a “new heart”, a “new spirit” and have their stony heart removed and be given a heart of flesh. Isaiah 52:13-15 and Ezekiel 36:24-28. JJ
The text that Nehemiah Gordon uses is Ezekiel 47:21-23. V 23 says “you are to give the foreigner an inheritance with the tribe with whom he was living”. Caleb was the son of a Kenezite. He was the leader of the tribe of Judah and was given a special portion of land. Uriah the Hittite fought in the army for Israel and had a house.
Prob1421 re Isaiah 56 says nothing about joining themselves to Israel. The JPS says the Foreigner who has attached himself to the Lord. This is in both verses 3 and 6. I love how verse 6 says the foreigners who attaches themselves to the Lord, to minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants etc. I don’t know your level of Hebrew scholarship, I don’t claim to be a Hebrew scholar so I have to rely on the scholars that translated the JPS (Jewish Publication Society)
We are all children of God. You are machine gunning the usually missionary verses and neglecting what the verses say in Hebrew. The nation of Israel is called ” son of God”. The T’nach often calls the Jewish people the sons of God (B’reshit / Genesis 6:2 בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים / sons of God / Elo-him) and others (including Isaiah himself) are sometimes called this – because all humans are His children.
Israel’s willingness as the first nation to serve God, makes them His ”first-born son.” “…for I have become a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn” (Jeremiah 31:8). All Jews are sons or daughters of God. Hosea 11:1-2 “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son.” Isaiah 43:6 “I will say to the north, “Give,” and to the south, “Do not refrain”; bring My sons from afar and My daughters from the end of the earth.” The GT tries to make out Jews are forsaken but God Will Never Forsake the Jews – Jeremiah 4:22 ; Deuteronomy 32 :2-21, Isaiah 1:4 & *Hosea 2:1*. Psalm 18 is not a prophecy. All psalms were written by David about David or for David, Context. The gt likes to show we Jews are not chosen. God in Deuteronomy 14:2 makes it very clear we are chosen. See also Hosea *2:1* & Psalm 89:26-29.
Again, You think you can declare yourself to be grafted into “Israel” do so based on a mistranslation that is found in the King James Version and other English translations. You misinterpret the verb הַנִּלְוִים / H’nolim in Y’shayahu / Isaiah 56:6. Christians make a big deal, jman being called the ‘Son of Man, ‘making out no one else was called this.The Prophet Ezekiel was called ‘Son of Man – Ezekiel 37:11 and he was a true Prophet of God and spoke of the True Mashiach coming only at the Building of the third Temple. – *Ezekiel 36:24-28* . Y’shayahu / Isaiah 11 is messianic (it hasn’t happened yet) – but again, it reads “And there shall be a highway for the remnant of His people who remain from Assyria, as there was for Israel on the day they went up from the land of Egypt.”
REMNANT. And, I’m sure you’ve noticed, that since 1948 (the founding of the State of Israel) Jews from around the world are making their way home to Eretz Yisrael (the land of Israel). In fact, The special qualities of Mashiach as a person are outlined in Isaiah 11:25;53:10 and 52:13. None of these qualities did j possess.
Lastly, take a look at some of those ‘repeatedly’ occurring laws. You will find that there is a ‘law’ given and then the Children of Israel might be told this applies to them AND those not Israel people who live with them.
The whole Torah wasn’t given and then a tag on at the end, ‘by the way this applies to everyone’.
There are 3 groups regarding Israel in the Torah. 1) The off spring of Israel (the son’s of Jacob). 2) Those who stood with Israel and accepted the rules given at Sinai and who move and live among the tribes.. and 3) everyone else.